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ENDLESS™ Legend is a turn-based 4X fantasy-strategy game, where you control every aspect of your civilization as you struggle to save your homeworld Auriga. Create your own Legend!

Fungle bloom not calculating resources correctly?

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5 years ago
Jan 25, 2019, 2:23:01 PM

Okay so, this is another fantastic concept. Love it. Or I would do, if it actually worked as described.




Okay cool.  Let's see here. Fungle blooms on POI'S in owned and neutral regions... exploit tiles.... and other stuff. Cool! [Goes away, comes back and screams] No it doesnt!!


Can you please fix this bug and, in my mind, it is a bug: This trait DOES NOT exploit tiles in owned and neutral Territory. This is a problem because there are mechancis in the game that seem to be flagged to exploitation that Do Not work because of it.


Please go away and code this in instead of adding some invisible pseudo-exploitation mechanic. See here:

This is just stupid.


Blooms are not city tiles. Otherwise they'd actually say [Exploited]

They are also not [Exploited]


I want to see a break down that's actually a break down. A city tile is a city tile. I want to see what's produced by the city seperately from what's produced by all blooms.


TL;DR


Please include exploitation tag as it is done with city tiles.


Please make it clear what income is caused by Tender Blooms and what Income is caused by Actual city production.



and please make sure that other traits work with it, like for example: endless excavation: - (the inflluence doesn't work)



Other improvements should include: Better explanations. Not one of your strong points I know but at least try to make an effort instead of releasing descriptions that should act as alpha phase placeholders at best.

Fast travel should state: Requires 1 action point and all remaining movement points. Not: Requires 1 Action Point ( plus other costs where applicable )


Small things like that make a huge difference 


Other gripes:

Given that their questline is reliant on having Alchemists furnace, why the hell have you not included it? Especially over Search party or Topography? I get that it's important not to 'over-twink' presets but I think it's silly not to give them a starting tech that is essential to their questline is just flat a out, brain dead stupid decision. I still don't like it but I agree with JoJo. (That it should be a choice people have to make)

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Jan 25, 2019, 3:34:11 PM

I agree that it would help us to distinct the FIDSI from city and from fungal pump.

I disagree with that :

"Fast travel should state: Requires 1 action point and all remaining movement points. Not: Requires 1 Action Point ( plus other costs where applicable )"

Doing that would impact a lot their speed to act on the map, and map control. I am not sure it would be a good idea. Moreoever, Vaulters do not need any movement point to teleport from a city to another. They just need one action point (I guess) like the Mykaras.

"Given that their questline is reliant on having Alchemists furnace, why the hell have you not included it? Especially over Search party or Topography? "


- I disagree. You have to pick yourself what tech to prioritize : strategic ressource extractor ? strategic ressoruces extractor ? Or Parley ? It's good as it is now. Topography and Search Party.

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5 years ago
Jan 26, 2019, 12:06:38 PM
Jojo_Fr wrote:

I agree that it would help us to distinct the FIDSI from city and from fungal pump.

I disagree with that :

"Fast travel should state: Requires 1 action point and all remaining movement points. Not: Requires 1 Action Point ( plus other costs where applicable )"

Doing that would impact a lot their speed to act on the map, and map control. I am not sure it would be a good idea. Moreoever, Vaulters do not need any movement point to teleport from a city to another. They just need one action point (I guess) like the Mykaras.

"Given that their questline is reliant on having Alchemists furnace, why the hell have you not included it? Especially over Search party or Topography? "


- I disagree. You have to pick yourself what tech to prioritize : strategic ressource extractor ? strategic ressoruces extractor ? Or Parley ? It's good as it is now. Topography and Search Party.

Fair enough! I really love their design but I'm too much of a stupid noob to work out how to make them work viably (compared to other races)


Anyway, for me the most important thing is the exploitation flag on fungle blooms tiles and seperating FIDSI info from city tiles to their own section.


Just to clarify. Fast travel does cost all remaining movement points which differs from vaulters. That's why I asked for it to state that in the description. Otherwise an argument should be made that it should not remove movement but I may have mis-remembered something. I'll try again this afternoon.


Also I do have to grudgingly agree with your last point. I don't like it but yes, I agree that one should need to decide on a path to commit to

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5 years ago
Feb 1, 2019, 3:56:50 PM

Hello,


sorry that I did not reply to your post sooner. I only got around to checking the modding section of the forum today.



You can already see the output of Fungal Blooms in your city UI:


I do admit that it may not be immediately obvious that you can find it there, as Fungal Blooms are indeed not full City Tiles. That they are not "Exploitations" in the sense it is usually used in game was a design choice, as otherwise Fungal Blooms would have become too strong with all Tile Output improvements, especially given that the Mykara Main Quest rewards a technology that gives you 4 times the FIDS yield on Fungal Blooms (be warned though that this does not show on the map FIDSI overlay).


I will talk to the team about the main output tooltip conflating actual city tiles and fungal blooms, as well as the Teleport tooltip.

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5 years ago
Feb 1, 2019, 5:38:53 PM
The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:

Hello,


sorry that I did not reply to your post sooner. I only got around to checking the modding section of the forum today.



You can already see the output of Fungal Blooms in your city UI:


I do admit that it may not be immediately obvious that you can find it there, as Fungal Blooms are indeed not full City Tiles. That they are not "Exploitations" in the sense it is usually used in game was a design choice, as otherwise Fungal Blooms would have become too strong with all Tile Output improvements, especially given that the Mykara Main Quest rewards a technology that gives you 4 times the FIDS yield on Fungal Blooms (be warned though that this does not show on the map FIDSI overlay).


I will talk to the team about the main output tooltip conflating actual city tiles and fungal blooms, as well as the Teleport tooltip.

That may have been the fear, but that is really not how it plays out. The Mykara are very weak from the beginning, and while other factions get stronger by getting more cities and getting better tile yields, the Mykara are basically left in the dust very early on because they just dont scale. Currently they are reliant on early warfare (while not being strong at it in particular) in order to get some symbiosis effects, and their only strong peaceful play is abusing either their faction governor or the Sisters of Mercy governer trait which lets them spam infinite blooms. The latter mechanic has its own set of problems, and it also limits their governor choice way too much.

Sure, when they somehow reach the lategame, they get a powerful tech. But that's just a bit too late if you play with competent opponents (or AIs...), and by that time, even that tech honestly is more of a catchup mechanic.


Making Tile-Improvements work on Blooms in their respective regions (captial city or overgrown cities)  would be a welcome buff that would also make things less confusing to understand. Trait based bonuses should also work on fungal blooms. This may be OP, but honestly, since we are talking about custom factions here, balance is out of the window anyway. Allowing players who use them to create fun synergies should be more important.

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Feb 22, 2019, 5:09:35 PM
LeaderEnemyBoss wrote:
The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:

Hello,


sorry that I did not reply to your post sooner. I only got around to checking the modding section of the forum today.



You can already see the output of Fungal Blooms in your city UI:


I do admit that it may not be immediately obvious that you can find it there, as Fungal Blooms are indeed not full City Tiles. That they are not "Exploitations" in the sense it is usually used in game was a design choice, as otherwise Fungal Blooms would have become too strong with all Tile Output improvements, especially given that the Mykara Main Quest rewards a technology that gives you 4 times the FIDS yield on Fungal Blooms (be warned though that this does not show on the map FIDSI overlay).


I will talk to the team about the main output tooltip conflating actual city tiles and fungal blooms, as well as the Teleport tooltip.

That may have been the fear, but that is really not how it plays out. The Mykara are very weak from the beginning, and while other factions get stronger by getting more cities and getting better tile yields, the Mykara are basically left in the dust very early on because they just dont scale. Currently they are reliant on early warfare (while not being strong at it in particular) in order to get some symbiosis effects, and their only strong peaceful play is abusing either their faction governor or the Sisters of Mercy governer trait which lets them spam infinite blooms. The latter mechanic has its own set of problems, and it also limits their governor choice way too much.

Sure, when they somehow reach the lategame, they get a powerful tech. But that's just a bit too late if you play with competent opponents (or AIs...), and by that time, even that tech honestly is more of a catchup mechanic.


Making Tile-Improvements work on Blooms in their respective regions (captial city or overgrown cities)  would be a welcome buff that would also make things less confusing to understand. Trait based bonuses should also work on fungal blooms. This may be OP, but honestly, since we are talking about custom factions here, balance is out of the window anyway. Allowing players who use them to create fun synergies should be more important.

It could be argued that weak late game, strong late game is part of the risk/reward factor of single city races but I do think the mykara suffer from some serious balacing issues.


Perhaps another way to design them could be through politics? Make their blooms give extra bonuses to allies with an open border and vision or something then give them a more of nature / nurture based wincon.


Food for thought

Updated 5 years ago.
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5 years ago
Feb 23, 2019, 11:33:33 AM

First of all, Myrkans are pretty much bad allies - the reason? The overgrown Ruins can't be accessed by others - even if you are in a peace/allied status! That really takes much from a Dust Eclipse and annoys the hell out of anyone not being that Mykara in question. It also is reaaally problematic if two Mykara are on the map - if they want to ally, they will have to share recources far more than other factions, due to the fact that they need to overgow a sizeable amount to make it actually useful in some way. That in itself could be seen as risk/reward thing, but I still would like if the 'neutral area' Fungal Blooms get shared with allied Mykara after they construct another bloom above it (maybe too strong?). If the alliance breaks, the last placed overgrowth would be removed (as in, player A overgrows something, player B allies player A and overgrows that one as well. Alliance breaks, Player Bs overgrow disappears).


I kinda like the idea of having city improvements work with Fungal blooms owned in owned regions. It would also make overgrown cities far more attractive - at the moment you burn them down the moment you capture them.

I would also wish that the symbiosis traits work on all Fungal Blooms, as well as that Traits generally work with them. This may be too strong - but as someone else allready said, custom factions were never balanced to begin with. Even if normal traits don't work, I would still like for the symbiotic traits to work with the blooms though, as well as adapted boni (as in, all factions give some boni to your Blooms in some way, Cultist give you a +1 Range on overgrown Villages, the Draken give +Influence on Ruins, the Kapaku +Science on Ruins, ...)


Currently, Overgrown Cities are ... bad. We all know about the Bugs with the Infiltration and too high happiness, but I rather mean that the Risk/Reward doesn't mash up well. Your city does not have militia, you can't produce units there and the fortification is set at 100 - in turn, if the faction recaptures these cities, they suddenly get a ~800 fortification city with 10+ pops, the ability to produce units and a far higher FIDS output. So, why risk it and keep the city? If you don't have an overgrown ruin near you, you will have a problem to reinforce it, too. These cities do need some kind of buff so that you are actually inclined to keep them, instead of following a 'salt the earth' approach (which is far too similar to cultists anyway).



All in all I like the Mykara, but with these issues currently - they feel weak. Dust Eclipse is a good tool lategame, but not that good early. They suffer from good units and need to focus far more on developing their city than building an army anyway (probably one of the reasons the AI plays the Mykara so very bad). 


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5 years ago
Feb 24, 2019, 7:32:21 AM

Assimilation reward is very low yes.

I suggested specifics buffs for each assimilation here, and a force truce each time a faction is assimilated (to allow more pacific strategies with Mykara) :

Link.

Updated 5 years ago.
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