Although it is basically Korean, I believe dev can deal with it because what matters is numbers.

It was vanilla, non-custom faction hissho, fast speed play.

33 turn science victory is achieved, which I believe way much irrational result.

Hissho resource recoverer trait is too much over powered and irrational.

Moreover, some bugs still exist which makes the trait more powerful 

The bugs may be known already. 

(1. Mining module lifetime is multiplied by the number of modules.: 5 module -> 50 turn lifetime at maximum.)

(2. Multiple mining module can be installed in a single planet when the player clicks the mining initialization button quickly.)

But the point is that, even without the bugs above, resource recoverer trait is still too much powerful and must be corrected ASAP.

Furthermore, recent balance update nerfed Hissho much but the changes are not related to mining style hissho.

Instead, the changes prevent players from playing other style hissho but force to play mining style hissho.

I suggest to cancel all or most of changes on Hissho as well as nerf mining style and correct bugs.

Thank you.

p.s. I will post save files (start and end turn) of 33 turn victory hissho play.

MinerHissho-start.sav

MinerHissho-end.sav

so... The output of the probes is added to each pop?

jfc that explains the nonsensical numbers i was seeing, that is not how reading the trait makes it sound like.

Yes, the effect stacks for each pop AND the duration stacks for each probe installed (and the cooldown gets reduced, so you get more and more probes at once).

duration stacking with each probe i honestly find is perfectly okay otherwise you would need a behemoth per system and that doesn't feel like is what the intent is, but damn applying the bonus full to the pop and not the planet is crazy. It's like the Umbral Choir, but better.

The problem with duration stack is since the probe multiplier taken into account is the maximum of any of the probes installed, you can mix 1 red probe (the one that depletes planets) and the rest long probes to get some REAAAAAAAAAAALLY long duration on probes with the maximum multiplier but only a little bit of depletion, doesn't feel well designed, as you really have no choice since this is optimal. 

The fact there is different types of probes and the effects can synergize would imply the design was to have you design a mix of probes that corresponds to your needs but it's simply not the case with the way things are implemented.

koxsos wrote:

Thank you for showing how the mechanic actually works!

I never knew it was added to actual home system PLANET's output. (because it simply does not say so).

Outstanding.

So basically stack full army of behemoths with probes, spam them all on gas giant, take them home, do the % increase and gg.

The FIDSI increase is only true for Hissho.

yeah yeah obviously use it with... "resource recoverers trait".
I mean adding 50% of some base fidsi planet value to your "system's" output as it says, is rather useless, but this way, I can truly appreciate the value of the trait.

Mining Behemoth should be slow and fragile, so that enemy player can break hissho's economy by destroying them or hissho waste time and resource protecting them.I do not think making Hissho weak would be fun, but adding a counterplay and ways to play around them is fun.

I just encounter the probe lifetime bug. It has been reported here: https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/endless-space-2/forums/114-bug-reports/threads/34755-behemoths-mining-probes-are-broken sad times as it is very broken and I need to start with somone new.

Translated what s10hdgs2 wrote on Korean ES2 community (https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=es2&no=12451)

Fast gamespeed, Behemoth unlock quest turned off

1. Miner Hissho is strategy that concentrates on 'per pop FIDS bonus' at Home System by mining probes to unhabited planets. Therefore we only need 1 home system. Other colonies are useless.

2. Whether you use Fast Miner (cooldown 2 turn, duration 4 turn) or Deep Miner (cooldown 5 turn, duration 10 turn), it will cover 2 planets per module

3. Currently there are bugs in Miner Module

3.1. Mining Probe duration is cumulative (if you use 5 Fast Miner module, probe duration would be 4x5=20 turn on each probe). Therefore 1 mining module can cover 10 planets, which means a mining behemoth with 5 mining modules will cover 50 planets.

3.2. Mining Probes can be used several times at a single planet. (you need to click really fast) So you don't need to go around to find new planets to plant probes. 10 planets are quite sufficient number so your behemoth will stick around with only 3~4 systems.

4. Percentage bonus on system output is crucial and per pop bonus is useless because mining probe bonus is far more effective.

5. As soon as you start playing, empty your colonizer and fill it with engines only. Send it to scout. You need to find A) planets to send mining probes, B) locate the pirate bays, and C) locate nearby minor factions. And most importantly, you need to meet other major empires as many as possible to maximize the Battlefield Archeology science bonus.

6. Assign your hero to scout and send curiosity exploration. Level up your Hero. Then send it back to governor at Home System.

7. Recommended tech path is

Xenobiology - Planetary Landscaping - Behemoth Blueprints - (Off-world Agribusiness/Efficient Shielding/Focused Plasma) - Behemoth Exploitation 1 - Galatic Market tech - Behemoth Exploitation 2 - Mission Flexibility - Behemoth Generators - so on

You can choose to take (Off-world Agribusiness/Efficient Shielding/Focused Plasma) tech if you need to deal with minors, pirates, or other hostiles so you can skip them.

8. If you finish researching 'Behemoth Blueprints', change your existing behemoth modules to 3 FIDS module and produce the same thing only once. Basic miner module is inefficient so just go with FIDS module for a moment.

9. Just as you get 'Behemoth Exploitation 2', replace all 3 FIDS modules with 3 Fast Miner modules. Refilling 3 probe will take only 2 turns. If you choose Deep Miner it will get refilled slower.

10. As you researched 'Behemoth Exploitation 2', your behemoth limit is now increased by 1. So make one more behemoth.

11. Just as you get 'Mission Flexibility' and unlock 2 more slots, fill empty slots with 2 Fast Miner. As the behemoth retrofit is completed, send all 3 behemoths to a system with planets you want to mine. By this time turn would be 15th~16th turn.

12. Click mining probe deployment really fast and then now you have really high per pop output. From now on, research other behemoth technologies and hold 4 mining behemoth and 4 FIDS behemoth.

13. Unlock colonization technologies in time so that your population can grow uninterrupted. Rush toward +25% Sci when Happy building and F-Reality Institute to make your science soar. Secure Anti-Matter in time. Unlock additional population slot building and terraform your planet if more population slots are needed.

14. Build Endless Research Park and ITER. To do so, mine titanium & hyperium in advance or just buy them from market.

15. Unlock hero market at proper time and get scientist heroes. Go with scientists at election. -10% tech cost helps and most of all you can grab 5th era tech without 4th era ones.

16. If your industry output reaches sufficient level to mass-produce behemoth, focus your mining efforts to cold planets and increase your science output.

17. Obtain Quadrinix in time and build Battlefield Archeology. Then declare war on everyone you've met.

18. SUPER FAST SCIENCE VICTORY!