Hello.

Yes it is i. The Vodyani main who always complains about them, but it is because i like them and want them to be fun, interactive and viable.
I have played 600 hours, most of them are Vodyani games. I can say with confidence, there are problems.
Lets talk about their quest line. I finished both versions, where they defy and praise endless.
Both are really hard to finish and their rewards are so abysmal. Here is why:

1. Your first quest is to kill pirates who spawn randomly. You can kill them with explorer ships, BUT we all know that Vodyani are super RNG at start. You can start with 1 planet, cold that has low industry(homeplanet) only and it will take eternity to make 2 ships (you need 2 and hero to kill pirates) or with 3 (including home) that are extremely good. That alone affects their quest completion speed. Pirates do not always spawn near, that random spawning sometimes throws them into other constelations forcing you to get bar. shielding early. All this together makes first quest AWFUL! Other factions has such easy quests. Build manpower, build structers, build ship, assimilate faction. Those are so easy and they are not that interfiering with core gameplay
2) Second quest is less obnoxious to deal with and match the rewards kinda. The engines you get for ruin explorations are good few turns and do not grant something extaordinary, like extra MS or extra damage on ship and etc. Amplitude you could make those engines have essence draining effect, making it extremely great and special for vodyani early. Brainwashing faction reward is ok, you get extra influence on certain type of planets, but knowing that you can not terraform, you can not get full potential out of it.

3) Here is where things get absolute bonkers bad. You either send HERO with CERTAIN LEVEL and EQUIPED WITH PROBE into RANDOM PLACE ON THE GALAXY which most of the time is OTHER END OF THE GALAXY to scan the anomaly or COLONIZE SAME SPOT. Arks can spam MS modules and get there, but even if full of MS modules it will take eternity, it can be attacked, there are major factions who can destroy it + sacrificing an ARK! ARK! To colonize 2 planet size system (always) is so SOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAAD. Rewards you might ask? 300 manpower. WOOOOOOOOW I FEEL OP NOW! Other factions get ship construction cost lowered, great defensive modules, insane buildings and etc. WT* is 300 manpower or 30% manpower refill? That needs a change, a huge one. Both how quest work and reward.
4) From now you can stop following endless and have influence related quest which give more influence rewards or can worship them more creating buildings that lower approval pentalty and guess again, get more influence. That influecen gain is so unncessary late game, where it overflows and you can not do much with it, unlike empire. Oh right forgot to mention the quest where you need to use core cracker to destroy 2 planets or another one where you need to apply certain amout of political pressure on major faction.

Now compare Vodyani who finished all quest line and other factions.
Vodyani - get tons of influence nowhere to spend.
Empire - can branch to become militray with damage on weapons, lower ship cost and tons of manpower per pop or scientist with huge science bonus per pop or stay industry generating huge amount of influence to spend.
Riftborn - Lower ship construction with a good hero or building quite powerful pops even faster, or more manpower and lastly make pops even stronger (and they are pretty good already)

Vaulters - same as empire can branch to get huge bonuses on pops and good modules.

Everyone gets to upgrade in some shape of form.
I can talk about current gameplay problems of Vodyani, but i am so disappointed and depressed by them that i have no will to even play them and never suggest to play them to anyone really.
I do not blame Amplitude team, it is hard to balance a faction that lore wise is stronger than anyone else. They did listen in the past and changed thing that made Vodyani better, but sadly that is not enough.

They work on a new project, i know that, but i truly hope they would fix best faction in the game. I loved them so much i got all dlcs just to support AS so they can make a new dlcs and new games. But how do you think i feel when your favorite faction is so bad that it is only playable vs those who are bad in the game?
I wish you all good day.

Well it is true that influence for an empire that can not convert is kinda lackluster, the 0 hero cooldown however is pretty good.

I also noticed you did not mention Lumeris, is it because they suck? :-D

It's been a while since I played Vody, but I remember being kind of annoyed with the micromanagement of the Arks (back and forth between giving them movement modules and stationary stuff that I wanted when they got in place). Is that still the case?

dustwhit wrote:

It's been a while since I played Vody, but I remember being kind of annoyed with the micromanagement of the Arks (back and forth between giving them movement modules and stationary stuff that I wanted when they got in place). Is that still the case?

Unfortunately yes, I do wish that there was a way to have multiple ark configurations setup.

Claims he has 600 hours, yet shows 0 game sense, seems legit.

Regarding pirates. You have 1 explorer ship at start, as you mentioned you need 2 explorers + hero to kill pirates, building 1 more explorer IS NOT HARD, it is just mandatory for exploration. If you start with 1 planet just reload the game, noone forces you to have shittiest start ever + sometimes you need just 1st tech to get 2nd planet (mediterranean). If pirates are far away in nearby constellation you know noone forces you to rush kill them? The reward for first quest is just titanium. You can equip your 2nd ark with engines and use it for exploration, it will be able to kill those pirates alone if you get early military tech with additional modules and fully equip ark with armor, bonus points if you attach a hero to it (which you should do since he is a super admiral anyway).

For 2nd quest I always get brainwashing, since you find minors and leech them dry anyway, the only reason to pick engines is to rush the quest. Why do you want to rush it again? Noone forces you to do it, you know what follows next. Influence building is totally fine and useful one, it is available long before theatres and helps to maintain laws before lategame + you need large summs to pay to skip the truce if AI attacks you and gets rekt and asks for mercy (as it always does).

Reaching far-away system is super easy. By this time you will unlock even more additional modules for arks, so just fully equip an ark with full engines and send it there. You know you can FORCE WARP to it using Ctrl+click? Noone will touch your ark in warp + your ark is a freaking war machine capable of clearing systems solo in early-mid game. Noone forces you to stay on this shitty system in far end of galaxy, just attach an ark - get the quest - fly away, it takes like 4-5 turns maximum. Probes one is trickier, you need to "teleport" your high lvl admiral there. How to do this? Freaking easily. Use the ark with engines, reach the system, attach the ark, buyout explorer in it, attach admiral to explorer, get the quest, remove admiral from explorer, delete explorer, unattach ark and move it back. The only punishment is 5 turn lockdown for admiral. Or just use you seeker hero for warp if you have one. Manpower bonuses are midiocre, but still useful, 30% manpower refil is ofc much stronger one.

Following quests are super easy. Here you should get lower threshold for happy status + hero assignment one, this one is totaly busted and extremely helpful, you do the whole quesline for that one great bonus.

Regarding the final quest, core cracker is a complete joke and is never worth it. However, you can do it on neutral systems with trash 1-3 planets. Final building with +50% influence is actually a great one. You know why? Just get that system in the centre of the galaxy with 4-5 juicy planets, get a lvl 4 ark and fill it with pops, equip all influence modules on it and get this building. You will watch the whole centre of the galaxy get painted in your color in no time. And then you CLOSE BORDERS with everyone. And place your mining probes on all the neutral planets in your huge influence zone. And noone can fly there and kill the probes. And they just mine you resources for Obelisks. Should I really explain you how to create neutral systems for mining as vodyani? (tip: just purge them or fire an obliterator lul)

I agree the rewards for vodyani questline are not that busted compared to some offending factions, but they are far from trash. I will take it anytime over Unfallen quest.

abhBIT wrote:

dustwhit wrote:

It's been a while since I played Vody, but I remember being kind of annoyed with the micromanagement of the Arks (back and forth between giving them movement modules and stationary stuff that I wanted when they got in place). Is that still the case?

Unfortunately yes, I do wish that there was a way to have multiple ark configurations setup.

You can have multiple ark designs. They added that optiin a while ago.

Neron wrote:

abhBIT wrote:

dustwhit wrote:

It's been a while since I played Vody, but I remember being kind of annoyed with the micromanagement of the Arks (back and forth between giving them movement modules and stationary stuff that I wanted when they got in place). Is that still the case?

Unfortunately yes, I do wish that there was a way to have multiple ark configurations setup.

You can have multiple ark designs. They added that optiin a while ago.

yeah but you still can NOT upgrade between the designs.

So each individual design follows the path of "start with an engine" -> "convert to resource powerhouse"

I'd like to point out that if you play with superweapons off, you can't finish the vodyani quest involving the core cracker.  This particular facet isn't just unbalanced, I'd actually mark that down as broken.

I personally never turn off superweapons so I did not know this.

So, a few suggestions:  For quest 3, the system should be tied fairly close to your home base, the way Auriga 2.0 is to the vaulters.  For quest 4, the destroy option should be a planet specific system improvement that only unlocks for the duration of this one quest, or some alternative mode should be found to allow a couple of destroyed planets in a game normally without superweapons, which would then turn off again upon quest completion.

Mandorin wrote:

I'd like to point out that if you play with superweapons off, you can't finish the vodyani quest involving the core cracker.

Did you test it? As long as I understood, “superweapons off“ does refer to system destroying weapons, only. Core cracker modules are for planet destruction, instead.

Groo wrote:

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Mandorin wrote:

I'd like to point out that if you play with superweapons off, you can't finish the vodyani quest involving the core cracker.

Did you test it? As long as I understood, “superweapons off“ does refer to system destroying weapons, only. Core cracker modules are for planet destruction, instead.

Superweapons do indeed turn off core crackers as well, and this does indeed post a problem with the Vodyani quest. We've added it to our database as soon as it was reported, but I am afraid we have not implemented a solution yet (unless somebody did since I last asked.)