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The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

2 years ago Apr 05,2022, 14:07:52 PM

Religion and Immersion in the Vitruvian Update

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Many of you have met nothing but various forms of Polytheism and Shamanism, leaving the religions followed by the different empires to blur together. The historic religions and their unique Holy Sites, meanwhile, remained largely unnoticed. In an earlier version of the game, these were adopted as a Tenet, so both players and the AI would pick them up as they developed their religion to get more Holy Sites. When we separated Historic Religions and Tenets to give players more flexibility, the Historic Religions unfortunately faded into the background. With the Vitruvian Update, we want to bring them back to the foreground. 


To that end, we are introducing two changes: 

Firstly, AI players will adopt historic religions, changing the name of their state religion and the appearance of its Holy Site accordingly. With this change, you should no longer see Shamanism and Polytheism everywhere in the world until the very end of the game. 

Secondly, we noticed that many players had trouble finding where to adopt historic religions or did not realize this was even possible. To make this feature easier to notice and use, we have made some changes to the tenet screen. Adopting the name and Holy Site of a historic religion will now have a dedicated button, instead of turning the name of your religion into a dropdown menu as before. Furthermore, the tenet effects will be displayed in their own dedicated box to show their effects and description. 



That’s it for the last of our previews of the Vitruvian Update, but this is by far not the last improvement we have in mind for the future of the game. So, stay tuned for news about future updates! 

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2 years ago
Apr 5, 2022, 4:09:41 PM

Changes like this can be made in a span of a day. But nooooo, Amplitude needs half a year to make them. Changes so "big" by their definition, it requires separate blogpost and forward announcement.

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Apr 5, 2022, 7:22:01 PM

Well, that is a feature I was asking for and I believe it will improve the game quite a bit.


Now just make sure that faith isn't just a 'big fish swallow smaller whole' kind of thing and we can have an interesting religion system in HK. I still think that both Culture and Religion tabs should allow players to put focus on a single territory, boosting your Influence/Faith there, so that you can attempt to more actively sway regions to your cause. Or get focused and beaten even if you're turning into a moloch.

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2 years ago
Apr 5, 2022, 7:32:06 PM

Thank you, good addition for immersion. It is kind of hard to understand who is what on the world screen when everything is polytheism or chamanism everywhere.

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2 years ago
Apr 5, 2022, 8:47:29 PM
DNLH wrote:

Well, that is a feature I was asking for and I believe it will improve the game quite a bit.

It's not like I wasn't, it's just of those small essentials you expect to have on release, or fixed on day one patch.

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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 12:06:12 AM
The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
Adopting the name and Holy Site of a historic religion will now have a dedicated button,

Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?  Or is this just a narrative and aesthetic element?  For example, would choosing/switching to Taoism improve my ideological proximity with an AI that has also chosen Taoism?  Or are there any other impacts to gameplay?  I'm thinking here, for example, that there are many "flavors" of Christianity, and while two Christian nations might not share the same flavor, they would likely feel a greater kinship with other Christian nations, than with nations following other religions.

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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 7:00:35 AM
ppretorius wrote:
Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?

This is one thing that I'm missing, religions divided the world into political blocks in Civ 4 much like Ideologies did in Civ 5. Sadly, for HK it would mean nothing, because there's little field for actual cooperation, you can sign some treaties, sure, but aside of giving FIMSI bonuses they mean little. There's not even much way to pressure anyone bullying your allies until they start open hostilities - and even then they can simply end their war against your ally and win territory and all you can do against them is take some cities from your side. Sure, you can send your military to your ally, but unless their army is destroyed, you'll just keep stepping on each others toes and your victories won't mean much for their war score, aside of slowing down tick-down from liberating occupied towns.


That's why I still think the major bit we require right now is solid war resolutions and joint wars, so that alliances, religions, trade, independent peoples (vassalization should be default, assimilation should be extra work, imo, that way we could impose Free Cities upon defeated enemy) and all could be built off of it.

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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 7:06:06 AM
ppretorius wrote:

Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?  Or is this just a narrative and aesthetic element?  For example, would choosing/switching to Taoism improve my ideological proximity with an AI that has also chosen Taoism?  Or are there any other impacts to gameplay?  I'm thinking here, for example, that there are many "flavors" of Christianity, and while two Christian nations might not share the same flavor, they would likely feel a greater kinship with other Christian nations, than with nations following other religions.

You assume that it is possible that two factions choose the same historical religion. Somehow, I always assumed that it wouldn't work like this and it is first come, first served. Not that I have any evidence for this, as the AI so far never chose a historical religion and thus, I always had free choice.


DNLH wrote:

Now just make sure that faith isn't just a 'big fish swallow smaller whole' kind of thing and we can have an interesting religion system in HK. I still think that both Culture and Religion tabs should allow players to put focus on a single territory, boosting your Influence/Faith there, so that you can attempt to more actively sway regions to your cause. Or get focused and beaten even if you're turning into a moloch.

Yes, I think this would be a good solution. I like the abstracted mechanics of religion and cultural pressure, but I wish for more agency and strategy nonetheless.

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 8:33:00 AM
ppretorius wrote:
Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?

There are narrative events specific to chosen religion.

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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 9:49:55 AM
Sublustris wrote:

Changes like this can be made in a span of a day. But nooooo, Amplitude needs half a year to make them. Changes so "big" by their definition, it requires separate blogpost and forward announcement.

Hey! 


In fact, having separate blogpost make it easier and clearer to interact with people about specific topics. 

Also, as we are aware this can be seen as minors changes, we definitly can tell you that bigger reworks and additions are coming really soon (and they are taking into accounts a lot of feedbacks from the forum)

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2 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 10:46:53 AM
benblond wrote:
bigger reworks and additions are coming really soon (and they are taking into accounts a lot of feedbacks from the forum)

This deserves specific topic



The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
...AI players will adopt historic religions...
...Adopting the name and Holy Site of a historic religion will now have a dedicated button, instead of turning the name of your religion into a dropdown menu as before...

This does not

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2 years ago
Apr 7, 2022, 12:25:10 AM
Sublustris wrote:
ppretorius wrote:
Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?

There are narrative events specific to chosen religion.

How many narrative events?
From what I've seen, most only have one event chain. Some have none. None of them have dozens of related events.

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2 years ago
Apr 7, 2022, 3:12:48 PM
Arphenix wrote:

Gameplay improvement one day ? 

We communicated about some of the next improvements to come to the game here https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/humankind/blogs/802-what-s-next-for-humankind

Feel free to check this out. 


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2 years ago
Apr 8, 2022, 9:03:25 AM
Sublustris wrote:
benblond wrote:
bigger reworks and additions are coming really soon (and they are taking into accounts a lot of feedbacks from the forum)

This deserves specific topic



The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
...AI players will adopt historic religions...
...Adopting the name and Holy Site of a historic religion will now have a dedicated button, instead of turning the name of your religion into a dropdown menu as before...

This does not

Point taken.

To be honest, invested players who are following the news about the game closely or are still playing it weren't the primary audience for these individual blogs. This one in particular was meant for two groups of people: Players who had not realized that historic religions already existed in game (we got a lot of comments about that on the Steam newspost), and players who had read the summary and were expecting major changes to the religion system (we want to set realistic expectations for what will be in the Update).

Clearly, G2G and Steam are not the best way to reach the more casually interested players, so we'll try to find better channels to communicate in the future.

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2 years ago
Apr 9, 2022, 2:41:56 AM
Sublustris wrote:
ppretorius wrote:
Does/will the name of the historic religion you choose have any impact on gameplay?

There are narrative events specific to chosen religion.

Hopefully done is a tasteful way? Or at least neutral, and not in the style of ES2


ES2 questing made me feel like I was doing Mass Effect renegade run eberytime I had religion related quests/choices.

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2 years ago
May 31, 2022, 12:00:20 AM

Why in such games devs add only existing religions? Why we can't pick ancient egyptian or greek religion? Just because they didn't survive to our times doesn't mean they were not important or influential. Islam needs another 1500 years to get even close to the timespan of ancient egyptian religion...

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