Women at every ruling position, you means

Slashman wrote:

Pondera wrote:

oh come now, everyone. There's no harm in just DISCUSSING the social status of Auriga, is there? It's not like VHS9000 is saying that "A vaulter's place is in the kitchen!" He's just asking questions. 

He's not 'asking questions'. He's using the appearance of doing so to fuel a thread with his misogynistic and narrow-minded world view. He wants conflict. not answers.

You want conflict, not me. Looks like your political beliefs do not let you to react adequately.

Slashman wrote:

The truth is, there is nothing wrong with the races or leaders in this game. There is something very wrong with a male who is threatened by depictions of women in ruling positions.

The truth is you distort my question. Let me repeat itself:

Why there's no a single common white man in Endless Legend? And why the only white-males-based fractions in Endless universe are facists?

See? Nothing wrong with women in ruling positions. There is something very wrong with the demonization of white males.

at least in the case of the vaulters, i believe that because the person that became the leader of the survivors when they crash landed was female (not sure if she was the captain originally) and because of that it eventually became part of the culture of the vaulters that women would usually take high ranking positions. The forgotten being a splinter faction of the vaulters would also explain that.

For the rest of the human factions i have the feeling that they all have origins within those original survivors but i have no evidence.

Also you call the broken lords gender neutral yet the riders voice clips sound female and i would dispute calling the cultist's queen a female when its just a relic of the endless

VHS9000 wrote:

Women at every ruling position, you means

Even if that were true of this game, which it most certainly isn't, why would you feel threatened by it?

VHS9000 wrote:

You want conflict, not me. Looks like your political beliefs do not let you to react adequately.

Our interpretations of what is an adequate reaction differ. Mine doesn't include agreeing that my manhood is threatened by a strategy game having races with women leaders.

VHS9000 wrote:

The truth is you distort my question. Let me repeat itself:

Why there's no a single common white man in Endless Legend? And why the only white-males-based fractions in Endless universe are facists?

See? Nothing wrong with women in ruling positions. There is something very wrong with the demonization of white males.

I'm sorry for distorting your question. You've now made it very clear where you stand. I seem to recall this same line of questioning from privileged white males who thought that the Luke Cage Netflix series was "too black" as well.

Thanks for making it clear what kind of person you really are. We're all now better enlightened.

Lanius wrote:

at least in the case of the vaulters, i believe that because the person that became the leader of the survivors when they crash landed was female (not sure if she was the captain originally) and because of that it eventually became part of the culture of the vaulters that women would usually take high ranking positions. The forgotten being a splinter faction of the vaulters would also explain that.

For the rest of the human factions i have the feeling that they all have origins within those original survivors but i have no evidence.

Also you call the broken lords gender neutral yet the riders voice clips sound female and i would dispute calling the cultist's queen a female when its just a relic of the endless

Most of races are native (I means were "planted" there by Endless) exept of Vaulters, aren't they? But you are right that Forgotten may be the paryahs of Vaulters. I missed the detail of lore, thank you!

Slashman wrote:
I'm sorry for distorting your question. You've now made it very clear where you stand. I seem to recall this same line of questioning from privileged white males who thought that the Luke Cage Netflix series was "too black" as well.

Thanks for making it clear what kind of person you really are. We're all now better enlightened.

Oh, you means that kind of discussion. Sorry if I took you seriously and wasted our time. Have a good day.

Slashman wrote:

I'm sorry for distorting your question. You've now made it very clear where you stand. I seem to recall this same line of questioning from privileged white males who thought that the Luke Cage Netflix series was "too black" as well.

Thanks for making it clear what kind of person you really are. We're all now better enlightened.

Alright, that's it. I've had more than enough of you. You've been hostile and demonizing ever since this thread started, as if the OP and anyone engaging in this debate should be shamed for even asking these questions. Not to mention, you've done a wonderful job of building strawmen too. But the term "privileged white males" just puts it too far. What are you suggesting? That all white men should feel guilty over some imagined slight? News flash for you, Slashman. You can't solve racism by simply replacing it with a different kind of racism. 

You would earn an A+ in any political theory class from any major university for saying such things, but here? It's unwelcome, unjust, and blatantly racist. If you MUST keep posting such drivel, you are free to do so. But I will take you down like an intellectual lion on a gazelle every time. 

Now.....back to our regularly scheduled 4X fantasy discussion.... 

VHS9000 wrote:

Most of races are native (I means were "planted" there by Endless) exept of Vaulters, aren't they? But you are right that Forgotten may be the paryahs of Vaulters. I missed the detail of lore, thank you!

Interesting. I've never played as the Forgotten before, so I didn't know that about them. If they're offshoots of the Vaulter culture, then it would stand to reason that they would inherit some of their traditions, like having a female leader to honor the first captain of the Vaulter ship that crashed on Auriga. Good find!

Slashman wrote:

Thanks for making it clear what kind of person you really are. We're all now better enlightened.

Please keep the conversation focused on the Endless Legend lore, factions, gameplay, artwork, and so on.

These forums are not for calling out on or mocking people.

Please state your opinion in a civilized way, focusing on the discussion's topic.

If you do not like the topic, you can either:

- Report an infraction by using the appropriate link at the bottom-right of the "offending" post, or

- Ignore this thread and positively contribute to other threads on the forum

Nasarog wrote:

VHS9000 wrote:

Feels like I pressed the right button.

Not really. You need to go to reddit or 4chan to "press the right" button. These forums aren't about creating drama and insulting people. There are better ways to start a discourse.

I kinda agree with you here, @Nasarog.

@VHS9000 : I'm not sure what the general idea is with this thread.

VHS9000 wrote:

I'm not any kind of a chauvinist but I'am a common white, cis-gender and clean-shaved man and I feel totally underrepresented. 

The game does not need to represent you.

The game is meant to entertain, challenge your imagination, your problem solving skills, your analytical thinking, and so on.

It is set in a fictional universe, with fictional races, their heroes and their stories.

Accept it as it is. Or do you complain to novel and poetry authors too, if their books are not representing you?

Pondera wrote:

oh come now, everyone. There's no harm in just DISCUSSING the social status of Auriga, is there? It's not like VHS9000 is saying that "A vaulter's place is in the kitchen!" He's just asking questions. 

He's not 'asking questions'. He's using the appearance of doing so to fuel a thread with his misogynistic and narrow-minded world view. He wants conflict. not answers.

The truth is, there is nothing wrong with the races or leaders in this game. There is something very wrong with a male who is threatened by depictions of women in ruling positions.

Slashman wrote: And news flash back at you. You also can't solve racism by pretending it doesn't exist and acting like any attempt to point it out is somehow a threat to your own little bubble of white safety. But Lord knows that hasn't stopped many a privileged white person from giving it the ol' college try.

"Bubble of white safety". That is, BY FAR, the most racist thing I've ever heard. First of all, this whole concept of "white privilege" is a myth. Nothing concrete and provable like affirmative action where white males are deliberately excluded from jobs. Or the NAACP where whites are also excluded. White men can't even say that they are "proud to be white" without it being tied to white supremacy. How about the police shot in dallas and in baton rouge? Did they also possess a bubble of white safety? Did they take it to the grave with them? 

Second, you are making a lot of assumptions about me, that I am male and white and straight. You know nothing about me, but you feel capable of passing judgement. I've tried multiple times to get this discussion back on track, but you will let nothing distract you from your blatantly racist agenda, will you? Just because it is "politically correct" to say so does not make it right. 

The only racist and close minded person here is you. 

The only offensive person here is you. 

The person who has broken the rules of this forum, specifically regarding racial slurs, is you. 

Minionmicdrop.jpg

Pondera wrote:
"Bubble of white safety". That is, BY FAR, the most racist thing I've ever heard. First of all, this whole concept of "white privilege" is a myth. Nothing concrete and provable like affirmative action where white males are deliberately excluded from jobs. Or the NAACP where whites are also excluded. White men can't even say that they are "proud to be white" without it being tied to white supremacy. How about the police shot in dallas and in baton rouge? Did they also possess a bubble of white safety? Did they take it to the grave with them? 

If that is the most racist thing you have ever heard, you are living an extremely sheltered life and have no actual concept of what people who suffer actual racial oppression go through. Which would explain your general lack of empathy.

Second, you are making a lot of assumptions about me, that I am male and white and straight. You know nothing about me, but you feel capable of passing judgement. I've tried multiple times to get this discussion back on track, but you will let nothing distract you from your blatantly racist agenda, will you? Just because it is "politically correct" to say so does not make it right. 

Well whenever someone jumps to the defense of someone who has started a thread with an insulting title and then repeatedly demonstrated that their agenda is to fight for the "right of the white male to be represented always", then yeah...I'm going to tend to lump you right in along with them for even entertaining that nonsensical stance. 

Weird how you failed to notice that he didn't ask for Indians, Asians or Native American Indians to be represented, just the white males.

Also, I never made any comments whatsoever about your sexuality. Did you just describe yourself exactly?

The only racist and close minded person here is you. 

The only offensive person here is you. 

The person who has broken the rules of this forum, specifically regarding racial slurs, is you. 

Strange how you call yourself an intellectual lion but you still have trouble with the actual definition of racism. 

Minionmicdrop.jpg

Very mature!

Y'know what, I just noticed Icarus' post above. It just kind of slipped by me before, and he's got a bit of a point. This isn't what these forums are meant for, and it sullies this game. 

Let's take this to PM, Slashman. I'll take on your first year political sciences curriculum there. 

There are not much dominant males because it's the dominant ideology of our society which say that dominants male means extreme right and anciant old fashionned times, and dominant women mean emancipation and good things.

Endless Legend devs follow the dominant ideology of our society, because they are normal guys who follow and thing the same things that the dominant ideology.

If we were in a middle age cathologic society, Endless Legend would be a cathologic game. There is no discussion possible, as 90 % of people have not the will to debat, and not the freedom to quit their core way of thinking.

VHS9000 it's like this. You can find special group of persons who think differently, but you have to be resigned. It's normal and it will not change.

Maybe there's gender bias in Endless Legend, but what piece of media doesn't have its biases? If you would look at Amplitude's other games, there all sorts of characters, male or female. Endless Space has little space science dudes, space nomad dudes, clone dudes, bird dudes, and human empire dudes. Dungeon of the Endless have so many male heroes; there was even an update that added the four guys from Team Fortress. With how Amplitude is representing each sex in their games, I just can't see it as part of some gender-based agenda.

The most telling detail that tells me Amplitude isn't pushing any sort of SJW agenda, however little, is that they've given us characters and stories and settings, and not some stage to pander to an ideology. I can't see how anyone who would push an SJW agenda could come up with 'matriarchal pain wizards' or 'interspecific kleptoparasitic ovipositing parthenogenetic insect people'. You'd know if a section of a game is pushing an SJW agenda, because the SJW agenda is notoriously overt, have no subtlety, and would hit you like a brick.

And as a third point, I wouldn't even mind if most of the characters Amplitude writes would be female. Maybe that's what Amplitude is most comfortable/interested in writing. Like, in the same way they're comfortable/interested in using sci-fi tropes, but you wouldn't accuse them of pushing a genre-based agenda to sell the superiority of sci-fi and the inferiority of romance and horror; you'd need more than the prevalence of female-led civilization to show the existence of a gender-based agenda.

I can sympathize with people who are really affected when they can't play as someone they can't relate to. Like, the non-existence or scarcity of white male people might make you feel excluded. I know people who only play Stellaris using human portraits, because playing as space plants to them just feel weird.

Okay, I'm rambling now so I'll stop haha

VHS9000 wrote:

I've just noticed something interesting, folks.

There are few "human" races in the game wich ones have diffrent mechanics and lore. There are few monstrous races with diffrent lore and mechanics too. But most of them are led by female heroes and leaders.

Mages are led by the excentric witches and males are low-tier garbage and working ants. All heroes are female.

Vaulters/mezari are led by the strong independent women, warriors and scientists same time. Males are faceless cannon fodder. All heroes are female.

Forgotten... oh, do not let this bearded guy to mislead you. He is the "representative" of the race and also a narrator in the main quest but all their leaders are female. Same as heroes. Same as the T3-unit.

Necrofags are led by the queens (it's OK, they are creepy insectoids).

Cultists are ruled by the Queen (they are haunting dummy-like robots, it's OK too).

Lovecraftian morgawr IS led by hivemind... but still lives in matriarchat.

Oh, yes! We also have the disney-semits (my favorite race btw), the disney-dragons, the weaboo-furrys (my 2nd favorite race), the bearded commi-elfs and the gender-neutral "undead" Lords but the sum of them all can't change the overall picture.

I don't mind all this progressive ideas. I don't mind equality. I don't mind fem-friendly content. But isn't the game just a little... misandry-friendly? Most of males are slaves or low-tier soldiers (and all of them are bearded!) and most of females are leaders or heroes.*

I'm not any kind of a chauvinist but I'am a common white, cis-gender and clean-shaved man and I feel totally underrepresented. 

*In Endless Space the male-based human fractions - Empire and Sheredyn - are facists, haters and tyrants. Of course.

Males are and always have been replaceable if you consider reproduction of a society. 

This thread is stupid, and insulting. SJW agenda? Really?

Lol. You are radical, and courageous. What you say is very politic.

You have right. EL follows the tendance of the society : the disapearance of the males. I would have prefered an anciant moral aligned game, as the Lord if the Rings world, but I love the EL gameplay so I don't have the choice.

EL is too amoral : there is not bad and evil guys : moral just does not exist. If you want true moral worlds you can look 300's and find trues friends. :)

What about the Roving Clans? You didn't mention them in your analysis. Or the Drakken, who look to have a leader that identifies as male. Same with the Allayi.

I think also that Dust exposure might effect genders differently. Some become governors, and have a nice long life expectancy. Some are brutal bloodthirsty warriors and have a much higher chance of a necrodrone feasting on their neck. Maybe body chemistry and the presence of testosterone might have something to do with the change? 

Also, there's the fact that Auriga developed in different social conditions than Earth did. Maybe matriarchy is just the societal norm for their culture at large similar to how slavery was considered the norm prior to civil rights? People didn't really think too much about it, they just....did it. 

Final point, you're trying to apply what we consider normal to a world full of Dead eating insects, pain magicians, spiritually transcendent suits of armor, Dragons, Cthulu and space dust that is on the same level as MAGIC. There is nothing normal here, so maybe just take a breath and relax?